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When I was in the 9th grade, I went a private college prep school in Brentwood called Brentwood Academy and had a really cool teacher, Mr. McCatty, who put out the challenge that if anyone wanted to come up and recite "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" by heart, he would award that student an A for the class.
I was the only one who did it. Sadly, I can barely remember the first part of the poem now.
"Let us go then you and I, while the evening is spread out against the sky
like a patient etherized upon a table. .."
I remember other parts just barely.
In all the rest of my school years, not much about T.S. Eliot ever came up again. He was just sort of skimmed over.
However, the sentiment of Prufrock has stuck with me through the years from having recited it by heart. As I get older, I can sort of relate to wondering about when that time will come where I begin to feel self-conscous about eating a peach a certain way in public or how long will it be before I will think twice about what I wear or how I wear it?
At least he put it out there...
I was the only one who did it. Sadly, I can barely remember the first part of the poem now.
"Let us go then you and I, while the evening is spread out against the sky
like a patient etherized upon a table. .."
I remember other parts just barely.
In all the rest of my school years, not much about T.S. Eliot ever came up again. He was just sort of skimmed over.
However, the sentiment of Prufrock has stuck with me through the years from having recited it by heart. As I get older, I can sort of relate to wondering about when that time will come where I begin to feel self-conscous about eating a peach a certain way in public or how long will it be before I will think twice about what I wear or how I wear it?
At least he put it out there...
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Thu, December 8, 2005 - 10:34 AMCongratulations on your teenage feat of memory! I was always terrible at such recitations. Prufrock is (or was to me, anyway) the ultimate expression of teen angst and uncertainty, notwithstanding its allusions to aging. Maybe I'll come back to it years from now when peaches start giving me problems and current trouser styles seem unnervingly unfamiliar.
As for Eliot's representation in the halls of academia, I can assure you that he figured prominently in Helen Vendler's American Poetry class at Harvard when I was there (yikes) about a decade and a half ago. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Thu, December 8, 2005 - 10:48 AMYay Eliot and teen angst! And yay memorizing all of Prufrock. It's not that easy to do. The individual lines and images are very memorable, but the turns and breaks of the whole are not at all simple.
Eliot featured heavily in my teen years too, but in a paradoxically different way. I was 16, and the older boy I was visiting was playing a recording for me of Eliot reading Prufrock. I had just gotten my braces off, my mouth was feeling slippery and ripe and interesting, and the boy kissed me: my very first real, slithery hot kiss. I went liquid and startled, and Eliot said, in the background: "I should have been a pair of ragged claws, Scuttling across the floors of silent seas."
A discussion ensued of whether "Almost, at times, the Fool" referred to the Fool in the tarot deck.
Oddly enough, several chapters of my dissertation and subsequent academic work involved the strange erotic and occult undercurrents in Eliot's poetry.
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Thu, December 8, 2005 - 12:20 PMYes, I think the thing about memorizing that particular poem too, is that lends itself quite well to the use of "memory theater" but yeah, the "turns and breaks" were a bear. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Thu, December 8, 2005 - 1:35 PMI find that Prufrock is one of the poems that has become impossible for me. My eyes have travelled over those lines so many times that I can no longer see them. Maybe in another 10 years I'll be able to read it again.
I recently re-read "Prufrock and Other Observations" and for me the real standout was "Rhapsody on a Windy Night". What a magnficent poem! -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Thu, December 8, 2005 - 2:31 PMWhat's 'memory theater,' WileyCat? -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Thu, December 8, 2005 - 4:29 PMI love the thought of it as describing a teen's angst. I really have never looked at it that way. To me it has always seemed to be about a middle aged man who has played it safe and occasionally questions himself about his choices. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Thu, December 8, 2005 - 5:32 PMThat's certainly the image of the poem, but it was written by a very youthful Eliot (19?). Personally, the older I get, the less believable I find his depiction of aging. I think he was essentially employing age as a symbol for a lack of vitality. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Fri, December 9, 2005 - 1:37 PMYes, "adult" angst is covered pretty thoroughly in "Waste Land" (and more convincingly). -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Fri, December 9, 2005 - 3:11 PMHee. Given the pageantry of arrested emotional development which is The Waste Land, "adult" in quotes pretty much covers it. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Fri, December 9, 2005 - 3:45 PMJesus, 19? It's been so long I had forgotten. Just like Dylan Thomas who, in my opinion wrote all of his best work at arond the same age.
I hope you agree to disagree with me, but I think his portrayal of an aging man in some sort of midlife crisis is fairly accurate if the man was perhaps not so well educated or experienced. In my line of work, I encounter folks like this more than you might think. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Fri, December 9, 2005 - 4:34 PMI disagree to disagree. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Fri, December 9, 2005 - 4:41 PMOh ho!
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Fri, December 9, 2005 - 5:17 PMI suppose it's descriptive of a lot of things. But Prufrock the speaker was educated, privileged and bored, what with his morning coat and pin and social self-consciousness and recreational slumming.
But the key to interpreting Prufrock as a young man is really in the language itself. All of his speculations about male pattern baldness and other indications of age are in the future tense: "they will say," "shall I part my hair behind," etc. He's not speaking of his actual reality, but an imagined one.
The entire poem is a series of odd moods and tenses, none of them present. It begins in the subjunctive "let us go then," and gets less tangible from there, shifting between a past perceived through curtains and doorways, a future imagined narrowly and dimly--a future subjunctive, entirely contingent future.
The tragic thing about him is that his imagination is so much more vivid than his waking life and he can't live in that world either. Poor sucker, dissed by his own dream mermaids.
I'll never be bored of Prufrock. I see something new in it every single time I read it. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Fri, December 9, 2005 - 5:27 PMReally? I studied it in 5 seperate undergraduate classes, and in high school, and I've probably read it 50 times by now. It's hard for me to believe there's anything left in it for me, but you never know! It's certainly an amazing, complex, sometimes-beautiful poem. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Sat, December 10, 2005 - 2:06 AMI usually read him about once a year - makes me very happy still. My favorites are the Four Quartets. -
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Re: my T.S. Eliot claim to fame in junior high
Sun, December 11, 2005 - 6:27 AMI had no idea he was 19 when he wrote that poem. At 14, I thought he must be a middle-aged man reviewing his '20s or '30s, but at 19, I felt like an old soul who knew every kind of angst there was. I am going to attempt to read the Four Quartets ASAP so I have more to talk about on this tribe. I am so glad there are tribes like this. It has been many years since I was an English Lit. major or applied any critical theory to my graduate courses in Digital Media studies.
One thing I have become more interested in when reading certain favorite authors, is knowing what was going on in their lives when they wrote certain pieces. Like what age, where did they live, all the things I never thought too much about when I was younger. Maybe it was more magical that way or made the reading more challenging somehow.
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Memory Theater
Sun, December 11, 2005 - 6:04 AMFrances Yates wrote a book on the subject which is mind-blowing to say the least - "The Art of Memory"
My recollection of the particulars had me doing a search on my name and the word "memory" (such an ineffible thing)
here are some paragraphs from an essay I wrote about six years ago that is still online somewhere. Anyway, I believe I used that to remember the whole poem without really intending too, though it became of great necessity to do so.
www.mud.co.uk/dvw/mudsmem...smorals.html
"Without the advent of cue cards or note paper, Greek orators used what Frances Yates refers to as "the art of memory," The referential place for such a concept, resides in the mental architecture of the individual mind. The original concept of a "mental architecture" is credited to Simonides of Ceos (556- 486 bce), a Greek poet who accessed his own internal memory system to help identify a room full of dead bodies. As a guest who escaped a collapsed dining hall, he returned only to help identify the mangled corpses of the those he had been dining with that evening. He did this by means of creating an internal mnemonic system whereby he was able to recall who was sitting where at the table. Although he did this long before the disaster, he was able to recall where everyone had been sitting and what their names were.
Thus, the advent of the "memory theater" was born and ascended through time as the use of a major mnemotechnic devise that would transmute its self- referential purpose through the ages, politics, and development of mass communications. Assimilated by Roman culture, the art of memory was used as a great oratory device whereby the speaker often attached key phrases as pictured words, to various crevices and portals in his own villa. During the speech, he could mentally rerun a slow and attentive journey through his own villa, and recall all the details of its carefully constructed mnemonic architecture. For instance, perhaps a highly important key phrase in his speech could be attached mentally to an image of a portal, thus emphasizing light and enlightenment.
Taken from the originating period of Simonides, whereby memory theaters were used my poets, orators, and as an aid in the memorization of long lists of items, the evolution of the concept remained dynamic and adaptable even beyond more widespread literacy and the eventual genesis of the Johannes Gutenberg's printing press . There were those who tried to use the memory theater as a modeled attempt to grasp the mysteries of religion and the universe. Giordanno Bruno, of the 16th Century, was burned at the state for heresy against the Roman Catholic church. Accused of propagating the black art of Hermeticism , that was feared for its occult application in one man's attempt to find out more than what was commonly dictated by the Church in regards to religion and destiny. Needless to say, his memory system was an elaborate project which took a life-time of dedication and resulted in a horrible death." -
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Re: Memory Theater
Sun, December 11, 2005 - 9:50 AMI'm reminded strongly of some extremely complex visualizations undertaken by Tibetan Buddhists. In some of them, the meditator imagines penetrating into the center of a divine mansion. The mansions are elaborately described in liturgical texts, and every one of the several hundred doors will have its own color scheme, and a different deity residing at different locations on the ground. In the Kalachakra system of meditation, the yogi needs to remember something like 460 different deities, all of whom have different characteristics, to carry out the practice. -
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Re: Memory Theater
Sun, December 11, 2005 - 12:26 PMIf there is anything to the idea of Jung's "collective unconscious", then I am not surprised that other cultures developed their own form of memory theater. Either that, or we just have too much technology anymore and don't rely so much on memory the way we were once required to. -
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Re: Memory Theater
Wed, December 14, 2005 - 12:55 PMcheers to that. we have no shared story, and we better potential narratives into littlee bits and call them 'personal spirituality'
okay, rant over.
I know the aforemtioned recording of elliot reading prufrock. it was startling and almost humorous. i'lll never forget the way his voice sounded like an old creaking door whe he read... 'do i dare to eat a peach' haunting.
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Re: Memory Theater
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 10:57 AMI think he would be good mixed with some dark ambient music. Hmmm....I might be on to a way of reviving dead white male poets. -
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Re: Memory Theater
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 1:11 PMI heard a decent trip hop mix of Eliot reading the Waste Land. The problem is that Eliot doesn't read well.
If you'd like to hear Eliot reading Prufrock, you can download an MP3 for free from Salon.com in their Audio section. You just have to get a day pass by watching their daily ad. -
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Re: Memory Theater
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 7:13 PMDo any of you remember that old Volkswagen commercial from the mid/late '90s or so? A couple driving through the French Quarter of NO in a mist. They turn on their radio, and the music is a slow, trancy techno tune. All of a sudden, everything synchronizes to the tune: the windshield wipers, the people on the street, everything. It's a nice, moody thing.
The tune is called "Jung at Heart." Anyway, when I told my students that The Waste Land was a lot like sampling, one of them did a mix for me consisting of TSE reading the first bit of The Waste Land over that tune. It sounds really good. I could probably upload a clip if anybody wants to hear it. -
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Re: Memory Theater
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 7:25 PMOh, and belatedly, thanks WileyCat for the very good description of Memory Theater. I thought that you were referring to the Art of Memory-type exercises, which I've always found fascinating. (WB Yeats used them as an occult exercise, I think), but I wasn't certain until you explained.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Memory Theater
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 9:21 PM> The tune is called "Jung at Heart."
As moderator of the Jung at Heart tribe, I find that pretty funny!
I'd love to hear it, if there's any way to share it.
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Eat a Peach
Wed, June 21, 2006 - 1:34 PMWhen i were high schooler...
I carried Eliot in my back pocket.
If I'd been shot in the ass,
I might escape
A crippling injury.
The book was thin though
And not enough to deflect
The blows of growing from
Child to man.
Still, I never thought
Of Eliot as young.
He was always old
To me, predicting
A future imagined:
Narrow and Dim.
I did eat the peach
And it was sweet:
Better than the apple. -
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Re: Eat a Peach
Thu, June 22, 2006 - 6:24 AMYes, it's good to remember that J. Alfred Prufrock was written when Eliot was, what, 22?
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